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extruder motor to hot?

HevilpHevilp Posts: 136🌟 Super Member 🌟
Hi,

my extruder motor did not have enough power and I followed the hints here to check the voltage.

I set the voltage to 0,8V (from ~0,55) with the potentiometer.

I started a print and it worked all fine, but after 1-2 hours the print stopped. I started another print and it was the same.
I still have problems with the extruder motor, it is going very hot, after the change of the voltage from 0,55 to 0,8.
Today I meassured again, and there comes 0,125-0,13V .

I  tested the multimeter with a batterie and the values are exact.

I meassured like 100 times and turned the potentiometer and the voltage never changed really.

Something broke maybe? I can pri the 20mm testcube without problems very well, but if a print goes longer, something seems to go bad. I have no idea

Comments

  • Samuel PinchesSamuel Pinches Posts: 2,840Administrator
    Is this the original A4988 stepper driver? If the Vref is has changed my itself then something is verry wrong... maybe try replace that stepper driver?
  • HevilpHevilp Posts: 136🌟 Super Member 🌟
    Its the original one  I changed to stepper driver to another (from the x or y axis, where the TMC2130 are now)

    The voltage is always around 0,130 even on the z axis, I dont understand the World...
  • HevilpHevilp Posts: 136🌟 Super Member 🌟
    I saw in the logs right now:

    11:05:34.963: X:125.98 Y:187.44 Z:0.89 E:0.00 Count X:10078 Y:14995 Z:712
    11:05:35.676: X:128.56 Y:183.70 Z:0.89 E:0.00 Count X:10285 Y:14696 Z:712
    11:05:46.305: 00:28: Y driver overtemperature warning! (800mA) (2)
    11:05:47.012: X:116.27 Y:202.23 Z:0.89 E:0.00 Count X:9302 Y:16178 Z:712
    11:05:47.306: 00:28: Y driver overtemperature warning! (800mA)
    11:05:47.798: X:110.82 Y:194.43 Z:0.89 E:0.00 Count X:8865 Y:15554 Z:712
    11:05:48.306: 00:28: Y driver overtemperature warning! (800mA)
    11:05:48.440: X:108.27 Y:190.53 Z:0.89 E:0.00 Count X:8662 Y:15242 Z:712
    11:05:49.154: X:104.27 Y:186.63 Z:0.89 E:0.00 Count X:8342 Y:14930 Z:712
    11:05:57.327: 00:28: Y driver overtemperature warning! (800mA) (4)
    11:06:03.672: X:136.28 Y:154.45 Z:0.89 E:0.00 Count X:10902 Y:12356 Z:712
    11:06:04.461: X:144.28 Y:146.65 Z:0.89 E:0.00 Count X:11542 Y:11732 Z:712
    11:06:05.360: X:148.73 Y:150.55 Z:0.89 E:0.00 Count X:11898 Y:12044 Z:712
    11:06:06.162: X:148.28 Y:158.35 Z:0.89 E:0.00 Count X:11862 Y:12668 Z:712
    11:06:08.042: X:148.28 Y:165.18 Z:0.89 E:0.00 Count X:11862 Y:13214 Z:712
    11:06:08.814: X:148.28 Y:172.00 Z:0.89 E:0.00 Count X:11862 Y:13760 Z:712
    11:06:17.130: X:140.73 Y:181.75 Z:0.89 E:0.00 Count X:11258 Y:14540 Z:712
    11:06:18.076: X:160.28 Y:163.23 Z:0.89 E:0.00 Count X:12822 Y:13058 Z:712
    11:06:32.375: 00:28: Y driver overtemperature warning! (800mA)
    11:06:38.491: X:156.28 Y:134.95 Z:0.89 E:0.00 Count X:12502 Y:10796 Z:712
    11:06:39.258: X:168.28 Y:138.85 Z:0.89 E:0.00 Count X:13462 Y:11108 Z:712
    11:06:40.368: X:168.28 Y:141.78 Z:0.89 E:0.00 Count X:13462 Y:11342 Z:712
    11:06:41.074: X:176.28 Y:142.75 Z:0.89 E:0.00 Count X:14102 Y:11420 Z:712
    11:06:42.186: X:176.28 Y:145.68 Z:0.89 E:0.00 Count X:14102 Y:11654 Z:712
    11:06:42.909: X:184.28 Y:148.60 Z:0.89 E:0.00 Count X:14742 Y:11888 Z:712
    11:06:44.691: X:192.73 Y:154.45 Z:0.89 E:0.00 Count X:15418 Y:12356 Z:712

    Why Y is overtemperature? omg....
  • Samuel PinchesSamuel Pinches Posts: 2,840Administrator
    edited April 2018
    1.3V or 0.13V? Something is wrong if it is 0.13V


    Post edited by Samuel Pinches on
  • HevilpHevilp Posts: 136🌟 Super Member 🌟
    I set it to 0.8 Volt, but after a few failed prints, it shows now 0.13V

    small prints are very good, but prints over 30 min, fails. An extrusion does not happend, because the extrusion motor does not push the filament.

    The motor is very very hot and almost not touchable.

    I will change the A4988 to TMC2130 as soon as they arrive, but there must be something wrong with motor.
    I changed the stepper driver to others but it still shows 0,13 Volt, what could be the error
  • HevilpHevilp Posts: 136🌟 Super Member 🌟
    edited April 2018
    I meassured again, and I got 0,18V (5 times) and after a few minutes I did again and got 0,07V. The use of the potentiometer changes nothing

    All values were messured on Z and Extruder and are the same always...

    1,6 A on, while 0,16-0,18V
    Post edited by Hevilp on
  • Samuel PinchesSamuel Pinches Posts: 2,840Administrator
    Are you sure you are measuring the voltage correctly? Like are you sure you are measuring DC voltage, and are you sure you are measuring at the right points? I’m sorry - I don’t have any other suggestions!
  • HevilpHevilp Posts: 136🌟 Super Member 🌟
    edited April 2018
    I changed my measure point to the Black cable going to the Board  and now it Shows the correct values.

    For Sure : the extruder Motor is going to Hot, the filament is too soft and not beeing pulled anymore.

    It only happens to larger prints like over 45 min. I set the current to 0.7 volt. 

    IMPORTANT I put the printer on a new table instead on the floor. The table gets little eruptions because of the print moves and the potentio screw get turned. The voltage changed for 0.03 V because of that... Everything can happens in 3d printing
    Post edited by Hevilp on
  • AlexAlex Posts: 4Member
    edited October 2018
    I changed all my A4988 to tmc2208 some days ago. I set all ref voltages as described in the instruction also.
    X = 0.85V 
    Y = 1.25V 
    Z = 0.85V (I set to 1.7V because of two motors we have)
    E = 1.00V 
    It was great! I had never heared working of my printer so quiet. Except one thing. Had an issue with extruder. It was very hot, and I started getting some clicks... So, I moved back my old A4988 for extruder and added rubber between extruder and printer case. And now my extruder has normal temp.
    Someone says tcm2xxx can't do high torque as a4988 can.

    P.S. Be sure you are measuring right pin. I can't find any documentation for REV points for my tmc2208 pcb revision. So I just tracked VREF signal from the chip.
    Post edited by Alex on
  • Der_MuckDer_Muck Posts: 265🌟 Super Member 🌟
    Hi, I changed to the TMC2130 and for a minute ago, my print failed after 3h because the extruder motor went so hot that the PETG inside deformed and the driveing weel doesnt move anything.

    Can it be that the TMC2130 are not made for the extruder motor use? My motor is also getting very hot but why.. I set it to 1.00V 
    What about turning of the stealthchop on the extruder motor? Would that help?

    Best regards,
    Chris
  • Der_MuckDer_Muck Posts: 265🌟 Super Member 🌟
    edited December 2018
    I try now to set #define E0_HYBRID_THRESHOLD     0 
    Maybe that helps, otherwise I think it only works without the TMC2130 on the extruder motor.

    Okaaay M913 E 1 did the Job, now its set to 1 but after 30min printing, I think it does only help a little, i will keep printing and see how hot the motor will get now.


    UPDATE:  After 1,2h printing, filament jam because of an to hot extruder motor...   DONT INSTALL A TMC2130 for the extruder motor! Its not passible to run the motor with it!

    Y Motor is also getting very hot....
    Post edited by Der_Muck on
  • Samuel PinchesSamuel Pinches Posts: 2,840Administrator
    Can't you just turn down the current on the TMC2130 to stop the motors getting too hot?
  • Der_MuckDer_Muck Posts: 265🌟 Super Member 🌟
    Hi Samuel, 
    I went back to the standard stepper driver, they are different to the A4988, they are not ajustable any more as it seems.

    To my surprise, the motor is getting to hot too!    I changed the PTFE Tube (I had a 1,9mm) and set the temperature of the nozzle higher (I now have a rotary fan) I think the fan is cooling the nozzle that the PETG is cooling down to and comes out to cold. After all that changes, the motor is a bit cooler and the printer works now with the PETG filament.
    I try to isolate the nozzle block with that silicon isolator what came some minutes ago.
         
    However, it seems that the extruder motor even with everything in standard is on the edge with high temperature. I think with PLA it isnt such a big problem.     
    The stepper motor now has about 75-80Β°C  with the TMC2130 its 90Β°C. With 80Β°C you can see deformations on the filament allready. And jep, the 1,9mm PTFE tube gives so much resistance with the deformed filament that the motor gets hotter and hotter.

    Now I think of to install a Y and extruder motor cooling. Maybe with peltier cooler? I have to inform me about that, I just got notice that it exist :smiley:

    @Samuel Pinches
    the current I can decrease with gcode right?  What do you think? How low can I go?   I read about the same problem in different other printer forum. They all had hot extruder motors with the TCM 2130.
    How about to set the TMC 2130 to that values:

    • Axis = Vref
    • X = 0.85V
    • Y = 1V      because its totaly hot to
    • Z = 1.7V   because 2 motors?
    • E = 0.85V    maybe to low?
    Wish you all marry christmas and happy happy printing :D
  • Samuel PinchesSamuel Pinches Posts: 2,840Administrator
    You can control the current if you have done the SPI wiring. Otherwise you can adjust the potentiometer. I have not setup TMC on my printer, so I cannot give you my experience.

    On some other printers, there is a fan on the front of the extruder, to prevent the filament softening in the extruder. Peltier would work, but it is very energy inefficient. A heatsink on the back of the motor with a fan would be much more efficient.
  • Der_MuckDer_Muck Posts: 265🌟 Super Member 🌟
    Yes I can set it in the SPI  will try that but the bad thing is, 80Β°C are pritty normal for stepper motors  so I will add active cooling on the E and passive cooling on the Y   

    One thing is not clear, isnt it right that the 1.1.8 firmware sets all currentses to 800?  (peak *1.41)

     #define X_CURRENT          800  // rms current in mA. Multiply by 1.41 for peak current.
      #define X_MICROSTEPS        16  // 0..256

    Doesnt have the settings in the firmware beeing the same as set pysicaly on the TMCs? Otherwise the firmware limits the currentses.
    Or would it mean I set the X to 0,85V on the TMC and the firmware which is set to the 800 would limit it only at 1121 peak current.

  • Samuel PinchesSamuel Pinches Posts: 2,840Administrator
    The physical potentiometer sets the limit, the firmware can only reduce it further. If the firmware is 1000 and the potentiometer is set to 800, my understanding is that only 800 will be used.
  • Der_MuckDer_Muck Posts: 265🌟 Super Member 🌟
    Yes I also think so, maybe thats a point to add in the tutorial of the TMCs? Its written that you can change the currentses in SPI mode but isnt it a must to pre set them? Otherwise every motor is set to 800 even you go up like @Alex ; wrote he set the Z to 1,7V pysicaly but in reality it has no effect because of the firmwares valves of 800 or does the limit effect more the peak current?
  • Samuel PinchesSamuel Pinches Posts: 2,840Administrator
    @Der_Muck
    actually, the TMC tutorial on the wiki was written by another contributor, not me. You’re welcome to edit and correct it yourself, it’s open for everyone to add to :smile:

  • Der_MuckDer_Muck Posts: 265🌟 Super Member 🌟
    Ah ok I didnt know that, when I have final results, I will do that :) think it will help others for sure ;)


    Update
    , changed back to the full TMC2130 setup, wanted to see if its passible to get a solution with reduced currencies.    
    Printing now the calicat on the valves  x 800 y500 z900 e450 with hybrid threshold speed change on z30 and e20

    The only difference is that e makes now slightly a tweeting sound but not on every print.  have a good feeling that it works now. After 30min the extruder motor is warm but not very much, thats great and no sign of underpowering SPI is awesome! :D
  • ProkktorProkktor Posts: 146🌟 Super Member 🌟
    Nice, my 4th TMC was faulty so I did not swap the extruder driver (yes the extruder motor is now the loudest part of my printer).

    Pay attention:
    If a Motor reaches 100C to 125C on the inside (it will always be colder on the outside) the neodyne magnets inside will weaken, it now needs more current for the same torque permanently... leading to a even hotter motor until it stops working or the driver goes up in flames.

    And:
    Putting rubber between Motor and Frame is a bad idea, the metal frame is the absolute best heat sink the motor can have, if you insulate the connection your motor will get even hotter, leading to above problems.
  • Der_MuckDer_Muck Posts: 265🌟 Super Member 🌟
    edited December 2018
    I am printing now for about 2h with ABS so the little room is pritty warm.
    The 450mA are working realy good, the motor is warm so you can leave the hand on it. 
    It was a chain reaction of deformed filament in the 1,9mm PTFE tube, a colder nozzle because of the new radial fan and a to high 800mA.  The motor used to much force and got hotter and hotter and the filament got softer and softer till it got pressed away.

    I will add some heatsinks on the back, a big 30mm high one and on the sides 10mm high once. Same with the Y motor.  If a fan is need, I dont know. I think on the Y motor its realy no bad idea.

    Thanks for the information ;)
    Post edited by Der_Muck on
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