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Print Surface Discussion - Bed Adhesion

Samuel PinchesSamuel Pinches Posts: 1,983Administrator
edited July 13 in General Discussion
A common problem beginners have the JGAurora 3D printers is bed adhesion, especially with the coated glass "diamond glass" sheet that come with the A5, A5S, A3S and A1. My experience has been that this coating is fantastic -- as long as you use it correctly. This same coating is used by other 3D printer companies as well, Geeetech calls theirs the "Super Plate, while AnyCubic call's theirs the "Ultrabase". These surfaces are all the same - the "diamond glass bed" is actually a silicon carbide frit coating that is applied to the glass to create a microscopically rough and porous surface which promotes adhesion. As the print cools down, it shrinks, causing the parts to release easily from the glass surface.

However, getting the first layer to stick can be tricky, which is why I put together a document with tips for bed adhesion with diamond glass on the JGAurora wiki.

Following those tips, so far everyone I have come across has been able to successfully get their prints to stick. Occasionally there are some colours of filament that cause problems, but so far from the feedback I have heard, the success has been 100% after following ALL of those tips.

This being said, I know many people find the diamond glass surface to be to "picky" or "sensitive", as it is very vulnerable to oils on the print bed from fingerprints which will severely reduce adhesion until the bed is cleaned. The diamond glass surface can also require a few prints to stick correctly when changing materials, e.g. from ABS to PLA, sometimes I have heard people have problems with this.

For this reason, I'm starting a thread to discuss other build surfaces people have tried. I would encourage people making claims about various surfaces they use to post videos of them pulling off prints, so that we can see exactly what it is like. :smiley:
Post edited by Samuel Pinches on

Comments

  • Samuel PinchesSamuel Pinches Posts: 1,983Administrator
    edited July 13
    Personally, I have zero problems with bed adhesion on my A1, A5 and A5S using the stock bed and printing mainly PLA. I have tried buildtak-like plates and too often I've accidentally printed too closely and then spent a long time with a razor blade trying to scrape off bits of filament.
    I did a youtube review of a magnetic sheet set, with a buildtak-like surface, and that worked reasonably well, but I have not tested it for longevity.
    I'll also add, that I've also used buildtak, kapton tape, bare glass, and PEI, and still prefer the diamond glass plate.
    Finally, I also have tried adhesion promoters - hair spray, regular glue stick, and magigoo. All of those definitely work, but I'm looking for something less messy.
    I'll start the discussion here: I have heard good things about printbite, lokbuild and geckotek. I own a sheet of printbite but haven't had to install it since I have been satisfied with PEI (good for ABS) and diamond glass (silicon carbide glass frit - good for PLA).
    What I haven't found yet is something that works well for PETG. PETG tends to pull actually chunks out of glass since it sticks too well, and it bonds too strongly to buildtak and PEI, making it hard to remove prints. Has anyone tried other materials with PETG that they can recommend?
    Post edited by Samuel Pinches on
  • BigtriverBigtriver Posts: 9Member
    Here’s one mine printing a 11x3x1 tray note how clean and no warping
    Thanked by 1Samuel Pinches
  • Samuel PinchesSamuel Pinches Posts: 1,983Administrator
    edited July 14
    Nice! What printing material? I don't see any warping with PLA anyway, but ABS of that size I would have been certain is impossible without an enclosure. How hard was it to remove?
    Post edited by Samuel Pinches on
  • Charly3Charly3 Posts: 28Member
    Here´s my solution:

    A5 Bed is quite OK, but really small parts didn´t stay reliably.

    So I switched to some 2 sheeded magnetic solutions. They did stick that hell, so I´ve destroid some just while trying to get print ripped off. Second problem with those magnetic plates - any hot nozzle that touches burns a deep hole. And this will happen on some leveling action for sure. Third problem was that even using at least 80° Celsius hot bet temperatur the topmost sheed split into two parts a magentic under and a foam upper part.So this part - other than the magnetic under part glued onto the glass plate - became useless rather quick.

    My solution now is a mix. I still use the magnetic lower sheet that is glued onto the glass plate (cutted out some small edges to make space for the metal clamps holding the glass plate).

    On top I now use normally a magnetic stainless steel plate (about 10,- €) of 310x310x0,8 mm size. PLA, PTU and PETG does stick really fine - but for I´m using an infrarot sensor that get´s quite irritated by reflection even of brushed side of steel plate I´ve to paint the plate with acrylic paint. This is done with an ordinary house hold sponge and - while bed is heated - does take only a minute. Whenever surfaces looses adhesion or gets scratched I just overpaint it. For acrylic paint is water solved there´s no really bad smell with it.

    Thanked by 1Samuel Pinches
  • Samuel PinchesSamuel Pinches Posts: 1,983Administrator
    @Charly3 - wow, interesting solution! Do you have a photo you can share of what the painted steel looks like? Works reliably with the IR sensor now? Can you give more details of the paint?
    Thanked by 1Gandy
  • Charly3Charly3 Posts: 28Member
    Yes, does work perfect with IR Sensor.

    At the moment I´m using this color - thinned with a bit of water to make it easier to strike it out -


    But any acryl paint tested so far did work. So pricing is the main selection criterium.

    This is the type of sponge i use:


    rough side to have a thicker painting, that does fill holes and scratches
    softer side just to refresh the surface and make it more sticky again after a couple of prints.

    The color is attached to the sponge not to the bed.While wiping the color onto the bed, the bed is heated up to 80°. Color dries down immediately and deeper scratches can be treated several times directly. It´s ready to print directly afterwards.


    Printing PETG or TPU after having PLA printed usually needs a thin refresh of the painting, PLA leaves a rather thin, mostly transparent film on the plate PETG and TPU won´t stick on that well. Repainting is much better then cleaning with alcohol and done in same time. Cleaning acrylic paint with alcohol will leave some colored spots on first layer of printed objects.


    The only disadvantage: Heating 90° and up the painting - especially if it was overpainted many times and became somewhat thick - will become softer and softer and on some point about 100° may blow bubbles. Bubbles will happen more frequently using acrylic paint form different manufacturers on different repaints.

    If it comes to about 1 mm color thickness it´s recommended to remove all the color, what can be done easily by having the plate on a plane wooden or stone underground heating it up with some hot air gun. If it´s heatened rather uniform, you can wipe the color away with some stove plate scraper in only a few pieces..

    By the way. I found that 310x310 plates do work much better than 305x305 if UBL Probing is set up with no borders.


    Thanked by 1Samuel Pinches
  • Charly3Charly3 Posts: 28Member
    Finally managed to upload a pic. It shows the painted surface (brown) and the printed structure of first layer archived with this surface.
    )
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